Dynamic Flash

That’s a really sad news. Yes this will affect our work, I totally disagree with this decision of Macromedia.

Most of the Flash people I’ve talked to agree that MM is making a total mistake with this “bundling” business — and I agree with them!

[...] here. And visit Turdhead.com for Vito’s take on the deal, too. UPDATE: Here’s another tortured soul who realizes, [...]

Hi, I need to understand your concerns clearly enough to relay them to my partners accurately, thanks.

“This situation is remeniscent of spyware-bundling applications such as Gator and the like” Are you, yourself, unsure of the privacy/security integrity of the Yahoo Toolbar? Or is it more like you’re concerned about how what other people may think, either before or after they investigate the situation? The more specific I can be then the stronger the case would be, thanks.

For another aspect, on potential future adoption rate effects, I know for a fact that all parties want to safeguard this… there’s a lot riding on the next-gen Player, and it’s a key priority to make sure adoption rate isn’t slowed. Daily download stats are studied for evidence of any such dropoff for precisely this reason. Do you see a stronger way we could discuss future hypotheticals, have any anecdotes, items others might not have yet considered? How much does the acknowledgment that this is a mutual priority help relieve any concerns?

tx,
jd/mm

The point is that this is a way to mislead customers to force them install unwanted and unrelated software on their computer. It’s just not honest.
BTW, the yahoo toolbar is crap.

(Philippe, for me, a key difference is whether there’s initiation of force. Contracts which omit information should eventually affect someone’s reputation, and there’s also the tort process. I realize that you have your belief, but you haven’t convinced me to accept those beliefs as my own yet, which makes it hard for me to then persuade others of your beliefs.)

jd/mm

Any plug-in software that extend the functionnality of a browser are such in intense scrutiny now that anything that appears not to be 100% “kosher” is immediately considered suspect. If Macromedia want to keep their high adoption rate, they should keep miles away from integrating other product with their plug-in.

All “non computer geek” refer to his “geek of confidence” before being confortable to accept anything from the internet. The main reflex is to say “no” to everything, even windows update! Thanks to all abuse done by the ActiveX technology we have to deal with for the last years.

Macromedia have attain what few other can enjoy, being seen as a safe an clean product. I don’t doubt that when the computer communauty will run into this Yahoo toolbar thing, you will lost a good part of the credibility you gain in the past year. Prepare to be flame on /. a lot. An when you lose the support of computer professionel, it’s not long that it propagade to general user. Just watch what happen to firefox in the last months. I work for a IT company and we’re doing most of our front end in Flash. This new come as a cold shower for us.

By th way, Macromedia should also remove Yahoo toolbar from the Shockwave download.

John,
Think of it this way.

People are *already* sensitive about the fact that flash is this separate download. There are lots of purists out there that believe in html or die. Google is obviously among them.

Basically, from a perception perspective, if not technically, you are making the yahoo toolbar part of flash. I recently removed the yahoo toolbar. Why? well I really cant remember other than that it didnt do anything useful, and it got in my way. Space on the toolbar, background tasks etc. There was just no good reason for it.

So what you are doing is taking something that most of us need(flash), and combining it with something *none* of us need and many of us dont want. This is not a good formula. Right now I am fighting some adware that got on my computer. I cant get it off and the more unexplained tasks on my computer the harder it is for me to track it down.

So, be totally clear, you may not be able to measure in terms of downloads, the impact of this. But it will be there. People will think just a little bit less of Macromedia, and a little bit longer about using flash or building something around it.

Reputation is a funny thing. You cant always quantify its value, until it starts to drop. And Macromedia already does lots of things that could contribute to a negative tipping point. By the time such actions actually effect adoption, the damage is done.

I would not argue this were it not for the fact that the flash player is the family jewels. I cant imagine secretly bundling (or almost secretly) bundling some irrelevant software that none of you user base would ever ask for and many dont want, for the purpose of a few short term bucks.

If I cant convince macromedia that this is a bad idea, at least make the option, to download or not, *much* more prominent. I can’t say this loudly enough. ***THIS IS THE FAMILY JEWELS. AND YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY TREADING ON THIN ICE*****

John:

While there is no force involved from a legal point of view, there is clearly an effort made by MM to make the average non-professional user not notice what exactly he is downloading. While it is probably legal (I’m sure the MM lawyers checked that), in my book this classifies as shady business practice.

You can even dispute that. But even if it isn’t, it doesn;t matter. What matters is that if the average internet user notices a download has installed anything additional that he didn’t want, the spam/spyware/whatever impression is there. It may be legal and not forced as anything, you have lost a user.

Yesterday I was walking one of our end users through installing flash and this is a quote, “Oh I have a yahoo toolbar now? Is this spyware?” I hadn’t heard of the toolbar issue until that moment, and I immediately was hit with dismay that macromedia would do that. Bundled software is a hot spot these days, and not one where macromedia would want to be in my opinion.

This is Macromedia making another mistake, selling out for short term gains at the expense of everyone, except maybe yahoo. If only the big business men would actually listen to their engineers and developers!

I install flash because i want to install flash. I dont want Yahoo! toolbar. Spyware or not it serves ZERO purpose to me. When i occsially use IE, the only extra toolbar i have is googles. Because its usefull to me. Now unless Flash directly relies on a thrid party component, it should simply not be included.

I’m just chiming in since it appears Macromedia reads here.

I’m a web app developer, mostly Java, some dot-Net. Our clients are big corporate. We’ve been keeping an eye on Flash as a potential web app technology, and for us, anything that even has the whiff of cheese or spyware could remove Flash from consideration. We can’t direct clients or their clients to download sites that do such bundling. We’d much sooner deploy applets, customized java client apps, or a conventional internet app, with no taint of an unwanted tie-in, no matter how trustworthy Yahoo is.

While I think it’s admirable for John Dowdell, and by extension MM, to come to the blogs (and perhaps mailing lists, etc) to gauge developer reaction, it seems a bit pointless. The corporate decision to get into bed (or perhaps just snuggle more closely) with Y! has already been made; MM is legally obligated in probably very specific language to combine the downloads as they are now.

If MM was truly concerned about the impact of this, they would have been floating the balloon publicly before silently modifying the download page. It reeks of a decision not to improve Flash, but to cash in on its popularity.

My question is: what the heck does the Y! toolbar have to do with the Flash Player? I can’t hazard a guess. Can the consumer? Will they even realize what they’re agreeing to? Who gets to explain to them why their browser suddenly has an extra toolbar they don’t remember asking for?

It’s depressing to see such a highly regarded and transparent plugin be turned into a mule for someone else’s branding and advertising. It’s disingenuous, and more importantly *only yahoo and macromedia* stand to gain from it. If I’m missing the part where developers or consumers lose 20lbs, grow thick wavy hair, and suddenly enjoy the respect of millions worldwide, please correct me. =)

Hi, I need to understand your concerns clearly enough to relay them to my partners accurately, thanks.

John,

MM must have received so much cash from Y! that it has stuck in your ears.

When I download Flash, I want Flash. Nothing else. Why is that so hard to understand? By bundling Flash with unrelated software, MM is walking on a very slippery slope. The same slope that Real slid down several years ago.

As a professional application developer that uses both flex and coldfusion, this is sad day. Our firm has completely bought into rich interent applications. Usability of our applications are enchanced greatly using flex/flash as our presentation layer. Each client we come up against there is almost issues of flash being a requirement for the end users. Up until now we have been able to convince users that the benifit far outweighs the cost. The cost here having the clients install the player. They now have placed a greater burden on me as a developer to convince our clients the need for flash.

Here is an example. If during testing the client finds out that he needs to upgrade his flash player and finds out that the yahoo toolbar was also installed, the client might begin to question the use of flash.

Personally I also find this a bit reprehensible. I do not think that MM would have done this during the early years of flash while they were trying to get a high adoption rate. Now that it has become “ubiquitous” and that many sites now required flash form them to be useful. MM has decided to bundle in another product. The question I have to MM is this: how does bundling the Y! toolbar help your buisness? The toolbar does abosultely nothing for any of your products. MM is just preying on less computer savy users, instead of protecting and educating them. MM is expoiting them. You would think that since MM buisness is centered around people using the web they would not be using this tactic.

I am a AS/Flash developer, and up until now was very excited about the platform. Not any more. I will be dropping it. Period. I cannot believe that MM would do this to us. As much as they charge for FlashMXDevPro? I am outraged to a point that I will launching a full blown anti-flash campain along side my longstanding anti-Microsoft stance. Like the reader above said, if MM really cared what WE, their beloved developers, thought of this decision then they would have asked us first. Oh well, they shall soon find out that thier lack of consideration for the hand that feeds them will earn them no mercy in the brutal end that they will inevitably face as a result of this really dumb mistake.

—
Francis Vidal wrote: All �non computer geek� refer to his �geek of confidence� before being confortable to accept anything from the internet. The main reflex is to say �no� to everything, even windows update!
—

that’s my reality too.

—
Hank Williams wrote: AND YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY TREADING ON THIN ICE
—

i agree. i just had to visit a client tonight because their xp box was crashing left and right. why. because they visited some ecommerce site that installed a flash app. i removed the flash app and the system became stable again. i _barely_ tolerate flash at this point. if macromedia glues any crap to it’s installers i’m telling my clients it’s spyware and canning it. my clients are so fed up with their machines being bogged down with nonconsensually installed software (and unless there is a BIG friggin message that says something to the effect of “This software gives you a toolbar for the price of allowing us to track and profile you and your community. Please click OK to install.” then it’s nonconsensual.) that if i tell them something isn’t worth the risk they take my advice.

ciao,
david

I fail to understand why the cries of so many people are always ignored, by Macromedia, it happened with the last Flash release (hence not 1 but 2 updaters!) and it has happened again here. I work forthe largest eLearning provider in the UK and we spend �5million+ per year on Flash products, I myself am employed as a Flash Programmer. We are currently having *issues* with Flash and accessibility since ALL of our work comes under the scope of the DDA. Currently we can only be sure that our work is accessible testing against JAWS 4.5 (a very outdated version of that screenreader software). Having said that we are getting a lot of support and some great feedback from Bob Regan to make sure that Flash is still an optino for us. With over 1.5 million users of our system we have to be extremely careful about what we put in the public domain. We also work with people who do not allow plugins of *any* nature on their system and have to fight to allow the Flash Player for people to access our content. This latest debacle could mean that our organistion which has such a huge public facing output has to rethink the use of our technology. The vast majority of our users come under the banner of new/low experience computer users… additional software that is installed when trying to use our content can be confusing and scary. I am going to have to take this discussion internally and seriously consider the use of Flash in our future products. This is also a great shame as Flash Player 8 was shaping up to have some great features.

addendum… it seems that the options on the download page are now more obvious and visible, however the default is STILL with toolbar… wtf?!

What a depressing couple of days. We had just made the decision to switch to Flash-based applications last week. Now of course that is an impossibility.

Flash as an application delivery system is simply finished. I can’t fathom how an executive decision like this could have come to pass. At least I don’t have any Macromedia stock right now.

The bundling is there by default. That’s a big problem.

Although I think the bundling is a horrible idea, I think at the very least, the yahoo toolbar would NOT be checked by default. Make the Yahoo bar the user initiated thing.

Yes, Yahoo is probably a trusted name on the web but :

a/ The important thing to understand here is that if the toolbar is downloaded with the flash player by default then people will download and install it without realising. I think all of us as developers know this happens, and so do MM and Yahoo, that’s why the toolbar is checked by default, so that guileless people will download it without realising what they’re doing because they just want the player. If the toolbar has to be opted in, not out, than fine, that at least will prevent people ‘accidentally’ downloading and installing the toolbar with the flash player. But,

b/ the whole association just smacks of crassness to me. The two apps are completely unrelated, just the fact that MM is even offering the toolbar makes me think they’re ’sold out’ and are more concerned with some extra cash than the flash player itself. I know that’s an exaggeration but it’s the way it feels, it feels like MM are selling developers out for the sake of a commercial tie-in. For it to even get this far really says a lot about the priorities at MM. Where is the value in this tie-in for flash, for the well-being of this format beyond MM’s purse? People come to the download page for the player, it’s not like you’re offering some hidden bonus by bundling the toolbar, if people want it they know where yahoo is. I don’t see any positive outcomes for this for flash, only potentially negative ones.

Monitoring download rates is fine but I don’t think the effect of this ‘bundle’ will be noticeable there. People won’t be put off downloading the player, there are three different outcomes:

1. People see the toolbar opt out and take it, just downloading the player. Perhaps they are, like us, baffled at MM’s decision to even offer this toolbar, and perhaps made suspicious of intentions.
2. People see the toolbar is checked and download and install both happily.
3. People don’t see the toolbar and download and install it without realising, in the process getting pissed off and annoyed. This will happen, any one that’s ever user tested anything knows it.

These situations can’t be measured by monitoring downloads, and the effects of won’t be measureable until it’s too late, if at all.

I don’t think this is the death of the player but it stinks, it doesn’t help promote the flash player to anyone, just the toolbar, and it smacks of opportunism that can only hurt our format.

If MM really give a damn then they will at least have the toolbar not bundled by default. That’s the least they can do. This won’t make Yahoo happy though, since they rely on the fact that people will donwload it without realising.

There is a petition started here btw,
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/badmacromedia

That so dumb to add a toobar–someone said above the beauty of Flash as a internet plugin is it’s virtual transparency. Unlike quicktime, media player, real player, etc, Flash has no silly logos or BS. It’s unfortunate that this transparency is apparently being thrown to the dust. I’m now keeping my eyes out for the next replacement to Flash.

Ken has a solid argument up there. Corporate Java and .NET developers have the lions share of industrial/enterprise client server stuff right now, which is exactly why Macromedia has Flex (Flash) aimed at converting these guys. They make decisions for thousands upon thousands of nodes…I know these people. Thin Ice for real.

Some points:

1) If people install the Yahoo toolbar (the default) without realising, how are they to know that what unexpectedly appears in their browser window really is the Yahoo toolbar and not something nasty masquerading as something respectable?

3) “Daily download stats” won’t give you the full picture. People will still download without thinking. But leave a sour taste and they may not be so trusting next time.

2) This *will not* improve Flash Player’s adoption rates. Why should I upgrade to 8ball when its FP8 features won’t be viable for years to come?

4) I don’t have the time to investigate the “privacy/security integrity of the Yahoo Toolbar?”. Teach me and I might want to install it.

I find it interesting that MM is posting to these sites asking for developers to more explicitly state their reasons for concern while MM is not fully disclosing why this deal was made. I think fully understanding what business needs this solves for MM would help.

I think the mistake is this - as an end user I only download Flash if it’s required for a website that I truly want to use. However, I will weigh my decision to download a plug-in against any possible harm that may do to my computer (spyware, etc). That means that web developers and the decision-makers for website development will take this into account when choosing technologies. MM makes money on Flash by selling developer licenses - if less and less people are developing in Flash then you have a problem. This is something that will be driven from the development world, not from the end user world. # of downloads will not expose the problem until it is too late.

This smacks of MM however. I used to develop in Director/Shockwave until MM started making every download about playing “games” on the internet. No corporation wanted end users installing a product that made it appear to be a game system - they want their employees to do work. This is also why I will never develop anything to be delivered through Real Player - it’s just too irritating to the end users.

MM is just following it’s own history…

One other piece of feedback is that Y! is already looked down upon for “over-installing” items on a user machine. If I want to install Y! messenger I always get email and toolbar by default without asking.

That smacks of Gator. There may be a technical difference but not one from a perception standpoint.

Bundling Flash with this technology just marries MM to this perception of bundling useless garbage with the technology that I really want to install.

some other questions:

Why not integrate with other toolbars? This bundling approach looks monopolistic rather than choice-driven. This makes it look as if MM is choosing sides in what is becoming a holy war over search engines…I would stay clear of that battle (especially with a party that is losing that battle :))

I see a lot of people we all know out there are keeping quiet on this so far.

Betcha this is why… Macromedia announced a while back that partnership with AOL and Yahoo, for both search related and messaging API’s. Now I figure theres some people with NDA’s who cant say that this is the rollout of live API testing for folks working on the beta or whatever. Its well known they always hide stuff in the player for future version testing. That toolbar might go a long way towards testing some kind of integration…

And while we all want the install OPT IN, we also might enjoy the benefits of that partnership. Yahoo uses Flash, Google doesnt.

I’ve been a flash developer since 98, and it is a choir, a real hurdle, convincing users to download the flash player. Adding the Yahoo tool bar is only going to make it worse, period. It’s a bad idea. MM Please STOP!

John,

Since most of the responses here are from Flash developers, let me add my .02. I work in tech support for a pretty large corporate entity. We focus heavily on training our users to be sensible about downloads, rather than locking their PC’s down. As such, our users are allowed to install extra software on the understanding that if there’s a problem, we’ll just rebuild their PC. They also have access to rebuild their own PC’s over the network.

Over the last few weeks we’ve had a large number of isolated calls, that together have led us to believe there may be a virus within the company. The symptoms: The yahoo toolbar keeps appearing within a day or two of a rebuild. The users never visit Yahoo and have no reason to install the toolbar - Google is the search engine of choice.

It’s this article that has given me the solution to this problem. Our company isn’t full of ‘average’ users - many of our users are developers, and virtually all are technically savvy, yet many of them were affected by this problem despite the options on your page. Why? Because until now, MM was one of the sites they knew they could trust, so no one bothered reading the spiel on your page - they just followed the quickest route to download heaven.

Another point you may like to note: On a not inconsiderable number of our machines (probably 10-15% of systems), the installer borked. The toolbar made it fine, but Flash never quite got round to installing right. Since users are there to install your product, not your sponsor/partner/advertiser/whatevers extras, this should be a pretty major issue for you.

Please take this bundling out. It’s an issue which has the potential to cause a lot of damage to your reputation.

I agree with all the negative posts about the Yahoo! toolbar. I was setting up some new PC’s for some of my organization’s users. I have a script that calls all the installation programs that I use as a basic load for our computers. I have enough programs that need additional steps to install - almost all have a purpose. Now the installation of Flash and Shockwave will waste my time by making me pause to ENSURE that the Y! is not inadvertently installed along with the USEFUL software.

Oh, sure we can uninstall the toolbar � or can we? Is it not a permanent feature of windows (from Win1.0 to Windows 3000) to keep little momentos of any and all programs installed on a computer?

By the way, I also use the Google toolbar - it is lightweight and has no apparent effect on the performance of the computer. Also, it is easily customizable to get rid of their proprietary buttons (which are still leaps and bounds better than the junk that comes with installing any Yahoo! widgets (toolbar, messenger, mail, etc.)

Maybe all those writing in are wrong, maybe the Yahoo! Toolbar is a wonderful brilliant example of software engineering and we really should all have it. (Yeah, right!) But I still don�t want my MM installer adding this magically delicious piece of sh.. er. software to my computer.

Since I am the one installing the players, and I will actually use imaging software to copy my first computer to the others, I will install the players � this time.

PS � I have taken great pains to ensure my users are using Windows Media Player instead of Realplayer because of the harrassment that comes standard with Realplayer. I will do almost anything to keep it off my network.
(I know MS sucks, but since it comes with Windows anyway and for some uses it does the job � I will use it.)

I hope that I am not someday saying the same thing about Flash or Shockwave!

As an IT support pro working in a team that looks after over 2000 PCs and servers across a WAN we’ve had more than a little trouble with this unwanted toobar. We’ve now had to lock down the PCs so tight that absolutely nothing can be installed locally. To top it off, I get home and find that my kids have inadvertently install the Y! crap on our PC.

NOT A GOOD IDEA MM!!

Wake up to yourselves. There are several large companies that use flash to deliver training across the internet (Cisco being one). Maybe they’ll need to revisit the development needs because this will have an adverse effect on them too.

[...] This event has caused me to revisit the Flash Player + Yahoo! Toolbar “offer” debacle. In light of recent events, I am now more concerned than ever that Macromedia have chosen to ally themselves with such a company. In fact, it concerns me that Macromedia are employing similar tactics to get people to download the Yahoo! Toolbar when all they really want is the Flash Player. The following is a quote from Terrell Karlsten, spokeswoman for Yahoo!: By setting it that way we’re giving people choices. For people who want to download software in one fell swoop, they have that option. If they don’t want it we give them the ability to customise it. [...]

Recently down loaded the latest Yahoo Messenger but it is not working at all as being advertised. Reported error more than ten times to Microsoft as I am using XP Professional. They always advised the fault of Macromedia. I dont understand as to why the new Yahoo Messenger has been introduced when this is completely a failed device & give problems to its users .

I want to remove the damn yahoo shitty as* toolbar but i cant, tried everything (almost). damn i hate it. never installing any flash garbage with that crap in it ever again. anyone know how to get rid of the tbar?

i have been develpoing flash sites for more than 5 years, and totally recent this move from Macromedia. Enought shit is already bundled by other companies. Besides, what the hell has MM flash player got to do with the Yahoo toolbar. Clearly NOTHING. This is just another dumb decision by some commercial with a tie.

Very annoyed about this. I have been using and promoting flash/shockwave for a while now as brilliant tools for user interaction testing. I have always used fully paid up versions (v.expensive for a lone contractor) and have convinced a few big name clients to use MM products.

So what happens? Got a new computer, have to go thru the hassle of exchanging Flash/Director/Dreamweaver licences to it and then I accidently get Y installed. To make matters worse, for some reason the “remove Yahoo! Toolbar” and the “add/remove programs” is not getting rid of it. Guess I am going to have to spend the next few hours digging it out.

Most people can get “dodgy” copies of flash/director but dont mind paying full as the product/company are so respected. Things like this change that.

HOW TO REMOVE IT..or how i did anyway. I think the version that gets installed via macromedia is a bit nasty in uninstalling. I went to yahoo and installed the latest one, then did an “uninstall” via the toolbar. This made it disappear from my browser, but then I also used windows add/remove programs to get rid of all things that say yahoo (there are a few). There was one called Yahoo install manager…my computer auto re-booted when removing this… I then had a look in my program files and deleated the yahoo folder in there for good measure. Im not an expert in these things…but this seems to have worked.

http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/triggerpages_mmcom/flash.html

For the moment at least, as I’m sure the corporate side a Macromedia/Adobe will soon put a stop to it, this url seems to bypass the dreaded ‘Yahoo toolbar’. Plus all the other advertising pish. I guess this should be called the “one click flash”.

Hope this helps.

I have just installed flash player,and now im spendinding time finding out how to get rid off the yahho toolbar.
It will not uninstall,or be removed,so now i will uninstall flash to se if the toolbar folows.
I did this on my girlfriends computer,and i have allready wasted 45minuttes of a beatifull morning….grrrrr!!

I find this difficult to believe.. its now the 9th of may and MM still haven’t woken up about this. I’m just an average small business user and unintentially did not UNclick the Y toolbar option when downloading the MM 8 flash plugin. I found I could not uninstall the horrible Y toolbar via either the toolbar itself of the usual controll panel method in windows.

I can only start to imagine what damage this is doing to the MM reputation as there must be hundreds of thousands of people in the same frame of mind after this episode.

So off I go now to Y website to hopefully install a non bugged version of Y toolbar so that I can uninstall the damned thing.

WAKE UP MM!!

It’s amazing how easy it is to get along without flash(and Yahoo) at all.Thanks Macromedia for making me realize it.
People-don’t sweat it.Just do what you have to do to free yourself and move on.MM is finished as a reputable company.

Its easy for some small time developer to jump off the flash bandwagon, but we have spend months developing flash applications. We are bound to the player, and to the stupidity of MM. I gave tech support to a customer over the phone and helped them install the player and the Y toolbar by mistake, and now I am responsible for the extra toolbar. Not only that, but the toolbar is installed in German, not English.

I can’t believe they would do this, its so stupid.

Dan

This was one very bad move by MM. And your clients will soon change their ways and MM will suffer. Hope they have some of that Yahoo cash left…

I hate Yahoo! I spend time turning off the toolbar every time I log on - Macromedia get that damn thing off my computer!

I cannot agree more with all the above posts against that Yahoo crap. It could be an exiting task for any committee involved, to bring such behavior to court - at least to reach a court decision that ALL and ANY PRE-MARKED fields in web sites are ILLEGAL - at least for my opinion.

To uninstall (if it doesn’t work by any other means) just go (for the last time) to http://toolbar.yahoo.com/ - install that rubbish officially - then click on that pencil and get rid of it - hopefully forever. That’s same time your chance to contact Y directly with your opinion on that, as they will ask you WHY you want to uninstall.

Have fun !

Just one more hint:

OLIVER mentioned above:

“…There was one called Yahoo install manager…my computer auto re-booted when removing this…”

That’s absolutely right - BUT - be aware that your system will reboot IMMEDIATELY and without prior warning ! NOT asking whether you want to do this now or later !

THAT”S ANOTHER TYPICAL SAMPLE OF NON-PROFESSIONALISM OF YAHOO !

I just installede the newest version of Flash and made sure I hadn’t ticked the Yahoo Toolbar button. It still installed the damned thing and now I cannot get rid of it.

aaaaaaaaaaa I have it too.
I was resisting this toolbar sh** for a years and now I get it with Macromedia. I cant uninstall it howewer I see it in add/remowe programs.(I can click on remowe buttton as manny times I whant it wont uninstall)

I have disabled it but I whant to REMOWE IT TOTALY.

Please help

count me in on the list of people that can’t believe MM did this. Underhanded, theft of my time. I was searching for how to remove and prevent the Yahoo Toolbar from being installed, we just discovered it breaks one of our most mission critical apps.

When it was determined Yahoo toolbar was the culprit, most uses claimed they hadn’t installed it. Now I have a pretty good idea on why they have it.

Been doing computer for 30 years. hate them. hate software and hate software compaines the most.

TY Steev it helped
But that restart was really $@%@$%@#$…

Heres one more person for the cause, i use mm flash for years and i asked kozzy to dl flash player cuz he couldnt see my works. what the hell! this is ultrage, affects everyone, if it was just a business to get money from yahoo, please maccromedia, get rid of them!

[...] Furthermore About a year ago, a lot of people were questioning why Macromedia made a deal to bundle Yahoo’s toolbar with Flash downloads by default — a practice many pointed out was quite similar to the way spyware was included with other apps. In fact, many seemed to feel it was sneaky and untrustworthy. Since then, Macromedia merged with Adobe, who apparently didn’t have a problem with these types of deals, because they’ve now done a similar deal with Google for their toolbar to be included on Shockwave Player downloads. It’s not clear if the Yahoo/Flash deal is replaced by this one, or if you just get competing toolbars based on which Adobe tool you download. Either way, bundling totally unrelated products as a default setting — especially after the widespread controversy over Yahoo doing the same thing last year — has to make some wonder how this fits into Google’s “sliding scale” of evil. Adobe - the clay or soil from which this brick is made. What a wonderfull idea apple offers eMac Repair Extension Program details (Macworld.com) Macworld.coum - Apple has posted details of an eMac Repair Extension Program it is offering for users of select eMacs who have video or power-related issues as the result of a specific coumponent failure. Program - a plan or system of nonacademic extracurricular activities: the football program.. On another note: forget The Lack Of Booth Babes; Next E3 May Be Missing Exhibitors Running a big conference ain’t easy — especially in the tech field. Even Comdex died eventually — though it had clearly been on the decline well before the final towel was thrown (to Greece, apparently). However, it’s still a bit surprising to potentially see a similar fate hit E3, the big video gaming conference held every spring. While there are conflicting reports concerning whether or not the show has simply been scaled back to bring it back to its roots, or if that’s simply an attempt by the organizers to save face after all major exhibitors pulled out, it certainly sounds like some of the messy behind-the-scenes politics of conference culture is reaching the public. More details are supposed to be released later in the day Monday, but from what’s been said, it appears to be a case where the various exhibitors teamed up to try to get a better deal out of the Entertainment Software Association, who perhaps thought they were bluffing — leading the exhibitors to prove they were not. Of course, many people perhaps felt that E3 headed downhill after announcing its (mostly ignored) plans to ban “booth babes” at the last event. Lack - a particular deficiency or absence: Owing to a lack of supporters, the reforms did not succeed. this is worth your time « Online magazine hopes to fill Asia’s English news gap (AFP)   [...]

I’m pissed off to Macromedia/Adobe right now. They just installed the “neat” toolbar into my IE without having the courtesy of telling me about it. Now I can’t remove it from the Edit->Remove Yahoo Toolbar or from the Control Panel->Add Remove Programs.

Nice going. I’m starting to wonder if I should uninstall my Flash Player… I’m never going to visit Yahoo!’s site again, that’s for sure.

I thing that at this time macromedia flash is not a good thing to have. I guess like most people you will have to restar each time it appears. Is there a way to get pass this? HELP!!!!!!!!!

I don’t even use IE other than for Windows update, but all of a sudden I have this Yahoo blowbar after installing Flash (in FF) the other day.

F*cking crap! I would have gone mental if there had been the slightest trouble uninstalling it.

Is there an alternative program to flash? In that case lets all switch!

One thing is you get the toolbar, but when the uninstall function has been disabled, then I think thats just as low as spyware such as Gator.

I just found these articles detailing the bundle, and I can’t believe that this been going on like this for over 1,5 years now. Shame. Utter shame.

Thing is, I am an end user. Not a particularly bright one, but not the dumbest one out here.

A LOT of sites I need to visit doing my work continuously advised and/or required me to install a new version of Flash, and after ten zillion such requests I clicked OK. With every second page visited popping an “Instal new Flash Player NOW”, every few minutes, my determination to NOT install anything on my office computer that hadn’t been approved of by our tech people was worn down. I thought “oh, it”s Macromedia Flash, won’t be trouble; but always seeing this thing here popping up drives me mad, mad, mad”.

I didn’t know it was what installed the Yahoo toolbar that’s been bothering me for weeks now.

What more, I only made the connection that the IE launched with the toolbar on blocks pop-up windows on sites ESSENTIAL to my work a couple of days ago. And I spent hours on end trying to figure why I couldn’t un-block that block, I was looking for it in the IE menu, nearly crying with frustration. I didn’t know what blocked these pop-up windows, only that I couldn’t get my work done. Couldn’t get my work done, only if I launched IE, unticked “displayYahoo toolbar” and then pressed Ctrl+N, opening a new window - and, prior to discovering that Yahoo toolbar (which I instinctly and utterly disliked) would be the cause of my plight, that happened only by chance. Several workhours wasted in frustration.

Thank you for giving me tips on how to get rid of that damned piece of Yahoo crap, and really a shame that this could have come to this.

I thought my browser had been hijacked!

I really don’t trust this toolbar. I wish I hadn’t downloaded Flash.

I have always liked MM products but no more.

I was going to buy Yahoo stock but have changed my mind.

Sony made a mistake of distributing software that couldn’t be removed on their CDs.

Macromedia has made the same mistake, because:

a) I trusted Macromedia per default. But that suddenly got me the Yahoo toolbar, which I DON’T WANT AT ALL.

b) The toolbar cannot be romoved , neither by the built-in uninstall, nor from the control panel.

I’ve learned my lesson, now I think Macromedia STINKS

For all I know, it’s illegal to fool users to install software that cannot be removed. Sony was actually forced to dirstibute a repair program AND give people new CDs without the bad software for free.

http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2005/10/31/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights-management-gone-too-far.aspx

If Macromedia will not distribute a Yahoo removal tool loudly and clearly in their front page, it’s time they be FORCED to do so

BTW - Steve’s commment from July 13th, 2006 finally gave me a working solution which fonally got med rid of the yahoo Toolbar. THANKS

As mentioned by Kozzy, the install and remove procedure ends in an abrubt and unwarned restart (why? Because nothing about Yahoo Toolbar is remotely okay). But after that, the Yahoo poltergeist possession of your PC is exorcised.

I’m not sure that installing official version of this yahoo toolbar is a good solution. Can you be shure that this action won’t install some other s**t on your computer???
At the moment I’m affraid of it.

hi there! i use yahoo 7 and windows 98, though i already have some version of the flash player installed , i am not able to use yahoo audibles or play yahoo games, whenever i do so it says…plz install the latest version of flash player. when i goto the macromedia website its says sorry no flash player found compatible to your platform or browser(i use netscape 7.2) and then when i go to the table and match the platform, browser, etc…and start the download , it gets added to my download manager but does not start the download, instaed says the download has finished, upon launching the file it says download failed. i tried the same through Interner explorer(version 6) yet the problem remains.i also use internet download manager and faced the same problems with it too while downloading.i have no proxy or firewall.and my internet speed is 56 kbps broadband.

My little sister accidentally installed this junk together with the flashplayer. Now I regret yelling at her for it. This sneaking snake just pissed me off big time. I don’t understand how M.M. can dare to expose its users to this kind of hijacker software.

I’m only a 1.11-type user, but I figured out a way that doesn’t need the Add/Remove panel or the official YahooToolbar. Let me share that with all of you.

If you didn’t want to install Y.T. and don’t want to install it again, to have the official version to uninstall the junk one, go to your I.E.’s Tools–>manage add-ons and disable all yahoo related elements.
After this move, you need to close all running instances of I.E., and run a search with the keyword ‘yahoo’ and another one with ‘yt’. This way you can locate the enemy. Delete all files related to yahoo from your computer.
After that, run the registry editor. Run a search in the registry with the keyword ‘yahoo’. Delete all entries, keys, subkeys and values found to be related to yahoo.

This way you by-pass the ‘Add/RemovePrograms’ which wouldn’t be working, and you don’t need to visit the yahoo page. This worked on my machine. Yahoo disappeared from my browser completely.

Please write to me right away if you see some mistake in my idea…

Greetings for everyone!

s.w.

[...] Google’s monopoly power is less threatening than Microsoft’s because changing operating systems is hard, while changing search engines is easy—so easy that every engine out there is desperately trying to stay in your face. And choosing an alternative to Microsoft’s bundled software used to be prohibitively complicated for the average person, not to mention time consuming—you had to go to a store and buy a boxed copy or spend the evening downloading it. Eventually everyone will be experienced enough to procure applications, and then word of mouth alone will bury the distribution advantages Google and Microsoft now enjoy. [...]

There are alternatives to Flash, you know!

Consider beefing up your skills in HTML, CSS, and SVG. Then look into WhatWG and XForms. I’m sure you can do all the necessary (and “flashy”) things with standards-compliant code.

You might need to have your users install a standards-compliant browser, like Firefox, but that is a good thing (as opposed to making them install Flash + crap, which is a bad thing).

Peter: That’s a pretty negative view of Flash. Sure it has its problems, but that mainly stems from how people use the technology, not the technology itself. Remember the <blink/> tag? Does that make HTML evil?

Oh, and for the record creating full-on RIAs with AJAX-ish technologies is just too painful, even if you’re using something like the YUI Library.

Flash needs a decent open alternative. Though, if you use IE, you should be used to ‘free’ toolbars by now.

Is there an option to not install the Yahoo toolbar? That wouldn’t be so bad, because then we could just not check it.

Otherwise, I consider it a “stealthware” installation and thus be very uncomfortable.

[...] Google’s new age “bundling” is less threatening than Microsoft’s because changing operating systems is hard, while changing search engines is easy—so easy that every engine out there is desperately trying to stay in your face. And choosing an alternative to Microsoft’s bundled software used to be prohibitively complicated for the average person, not to mention time consuming—you had to go to a store and buy a boxed copy or spend the evening downloading it. Eventually everyone will be experienced enough to procure applications, and then word of mouth alone will bury the distribution advantages Google and Microsoft now enjoy. [...]

Toolbars are becoming yet another plague in the cyber world. As implemented by Google and Yahoo, the toolbars are pretty benign and offer “some” limited extra functionality. However, they are really about branding. Like a sports team, if the other team gives away caps, others think they must give away caps. You the wearer, become a walking billboard.

Spy-ware companies have realized this and try to get their own toolbars integrated into your system offering rewards to affiliates who have no scruples using virus, trojans, and trickery to get installed. Some are notoriously hard to remove and provide no un-install feature (one company charges $29 for the removal program). It makes the entire class of software suspect. I spent days removing this stuff from my computer savvy wife’s system.

Most users JUST SAY NO to all add-on products and resent being duped. Toolbar luster has been tarnished; becoming classified in the mind space of users as mal-ware like spy-ware, spam, worms, trojans, and viruses. Many, many people are deciding to do without the free ball caps.

Macromedia enjoyed great reputation and product penetration by providing a secure product that works as advertised and does not back door users to get “other” products on their systems.

The questions Adobe must ask itself; how much cash is that reputation worth? How much tarnish can we take? It’s all about MIND-where. Where in the mind of users does Adobe want to sit?

Best wishes Adobe.
Dump the toolbar.

P.S. The reason I found these postings is that I was disturbed by the message that a Flash Player update was available. I did not realize that the last update of Flash had installed and update checker. Exactly how many update checkers must be installed on ones system before a user decided to classify update checkers as mal-ware and a new class of product (the update checker removal tool) is born? I’ll save that rant for another time.

The annoying thing for me is that one is given the option to opt out of Yahoo toolbar feature and then Flash stops downloading. Whose controlong who here…Is Congress involved?…just kidding on that…But it is frustrating…Can I download the “works” and then delete Yahoo?

Type your comment here.

I fuckin hate it. just a few days ago
player8 was working fine an now it just fuck with me and my mind its good to know that there is web sites dedicated to solutions and what not. i thought it was jst me

Type your comment here.I didn’t ask for yahoo, don’t want it, how do I get it the hell off my toolbar?

Yep I installed MM, got the toolbar in firefox and I promptly went to add remove programs and removed it but as soon as I started firefox it realized that it had been removed, connected to yahoo and reinserted the toolbar and even using anti-spyware tools like Hijack-this to remove the BHO does not help, its like a very malicious spyware/malware and is only better than gator in that it is programmed better than gator but still stands as a gator type nuisance that cant be removed without reimage. I know this, next reimage, no yahoo, no macromedia, EVER! Or atleast until this is no longer an issue which might as well be forever because MM will prolly be long gone as a result of this technique. Sad really. Luckily there are so many alternatives in web programming that one is sure to rise and oust MM if they decide to continue with this strategy. This behavior wont be tolerated, ESPECIALLY by the knowledgable programming type aka the ones who can decide whether to use MM or some other solution. Dont offend the techs and programmers if you want to exist in todays IT world. Oh yeah, Yahoo sucks for allowing this as well. Of course who cares, why use yahoo anymore when there is google, hell, yahoo is nothing but an AOL portal for google anyway.

-s